Tom Cruise and the Scientology’s battle for legitimacy in Europe

Beyond the headlines, beyond newsprint The Chicago Tribune's Washington Bureau

Forget Bob Woodward- It's all about Tom Cruise at Foggy Bottom

Posted by Cam Simpson in Religion and Politics

August 25, 2006

The Associated Press broke big news out of the State Department this week — that former No. 2 Richard Armitage, who is like a brother to former boss Colin Powell, appeared to be the "source" who first outed then-CIA operative Valerie Plame Wilson in the CIA leak case.

The AP’s evidence was an Armitage appointment calendar showing a "Private Appointment/Bob Woodward," from 2-3 p.m. on June 13, 2003. But our friends at AP totally missed the real news on Armitage’s calendar that day. One hour after the scheduled close of his Woodward meeting, Armitage had another "Private Appointment." This one was with "Tom Cruise ..."

Don’t believe us ? Here’s a copy of the appointment calendar.

 Download rich_armitages_visitor_log.pdf

And, yes, it is the Tom Cruise, as in the guy who is at this moment engaged in a PR battle with Paramount over the souring of their once-lucrative relationship.

Why, you ask, would Armitage be meeting with that Tom Cruise ?

It wasn’t about Cruise trying to gain insight for his next Mission Impossible flick from the barrel-chested former commando (some, including author James Mann, have publicly speculated that Armitage worked in the CIA’s controversial Phoenix program, the covert assassination and "disruption" campaign directed against the Viet Cong).

Not surprisingly, given that Cruise requested the meeting, it was all about the Scientology.

Cruise made the pitch for a personal meeting to express his concern about the treatment of Scientologists in Europe after an aide to Armitage apparently tried to pass the actor off to John Hanford, the State Department’s ambassador at large for international religious freedom, according to a letter Cruise wrote to Armitage. The letter is dated about two weeks before the scheduled meeting.

Cruise resisted the brush off, telling Armitage that while a meeting with Hanford would be "helpful," in fact, "I am most interested in speaking with you."

He was trying to enlist Armitage and Powell in Scientology’s battle for legitimacy in Europe under the banner of religious freedom, an issue that Congress requires the State Department to give close scrutiny each year in nations across the globe.

According to his letter, Cruise’s biggest concern seemed to be with Germany, which does not view Scientology as a legitimate faith.

A background paper (In English) maintained on the German embassy’s Website notes that the government "considers the Scientology organization a commercial enterprise with a history of taking advantage of vulnerable individuals and an extreme dislike of any criticism. The [German] government is also concerned that the organization's totalitarian structure and methods may pose a risk to Germany's democratic society."

Scientologists, of course, adamantly reject these claims. Cruise said in his letter to Armitage that he believes German officials exhibit "intolerance" to "members of my religion and other minority religions" inside Germany.

So, for the reading pleasure of all of our loyal Swamp readers, here is a copy of Cruise’s never-before-released letter to Armitage, courtesy of the Freedom of Information Act.

 Download tom_cruises_letter.pdf

Enjoy !

The comments on «newsblogs.chicagotribune.com»

Insofar as the Church of Scientology was instrumental in having the French government rescind its despi- cable "Sect Watch List" that listed nearly 200 religious faiths as subject to dissolution (including Fundamental Christian groups and Buddhists), it is only logical that Cruise, with his name recognition, would seek to have the US government do what it could to protect religious freedom around the world. We are fighting in the Middle East to bring democracy (whether or not one accepts that premise or agrees to it). Democracy and protection of human rights and religious freedom go hand-in-hand.

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When I met Tom Cruise he was great,human polite and repectful,but his ideas seem as irrational as the studios behaviour as treating him as a God for their own enrichment they used him and he became a tool. but he still has his looks. Is there really a baby or is it a myth

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

Germany sadly has a long history of religious discrimination. it is heartening to see that someone with the fame and recongnition of Tom Cruise would fight for the rights of every religion to be recongnized and not discriminated against throughout Europe. It is also important for any American to be willing to stand up for these freedoms.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

The appalling aspect of all this is that the extraordinary amounts of money that are being flung around at the studios at tom cruise at scientology,do we hear anything about humanitarian developments by any of these in third world countries.Richard Geere gives time money and passion to the Tibet cause Scientoligist run a self permotion business which seeks to control minds while promoting the idea we are from space ships,how can cruise be such a genius actor yet be deperate to be excolled in such doctrines Jesus turned over the temple tables he would have non of money ,yet they demand money money money,Cruise diabuses the responsibility he owes to public space.

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The appalling aspect of all this is that the extraordinary amounts of money that are being flung around at the studios at tom cruise at scientology,do we hear anything about humanitarian developments by any of these in third world countries.Richard Geere gives time money and passion to the Tibet cause Scientoligist run a self permotion business which seeks to control minds while promoting the idea we are from space ships,how can cruise be such a genius actor yet be deperate to be excolled in such doctrines Jesus turned over the temple tables he would have non of money ,yet they demand money money money,Cruise diabuses the responsibility he owes to public space.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

Cetti
this is not religiuos freedom it is money making idolitary of a man who believes in space ships and that he is a godhead with no evidence and kidness delivered according to the depth of your purse.The Germans who appart from the horror of the Nazi war have a great tradition of literature and religion,being the seat of the Reformation,are not so easily taken in as those who grew up megmoraising themselves on cartoons and junk movies.If he and scientology are so great while in all money put in their coffors and they have no record for humanitarianism.grow into independent thought oh Cetti

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More than most countries, Germany understands totalitarianism, thus the refusal to recognize Scientology as a religion. Despite the organization's use of celebrities to give it legitimacy, Scientology is still all about absolute obedience, mind control (readers would do well to do a internet search on Lisa McPherson, whose involvement with the cult ended in her death), and moneymaking. We need to be very skeptical about any claims to the contrary.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

I'm glad at least Germany has the good sense to stand up to an organization based on fleecing its indoctrinated out of tens of thousands of dollars before revealing its core story of aliens being blown up in volcanoes.

Only the hyperaggression of Scientology got the US to back down on this in the '70s, a failure of will that's dangerous to the public at large.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

I would have to ask myself why Germany feels this way about scientology. And why many here in the United States feel the same way. scientology has a history behind it of breaking the law and going after anyone who dares to speak out against them.

But see both sides for yourself. Go to scientology.com, xenu.net and xenutv.ome. Make sure to watch the video's and see how the members of scientology behave when asked questions and how they treat peaceful protesters.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

There are important ongoing hidden downsides to Scientology that I agree officials should also be made aware of. There are the alleged petty physcial abuse dished out by Scientology leader, David Miscavige, whose long history of petty physical slappings, pushings, light pummelings were even apparantly being dished out by Miscavige to church top officials up through this same time period, up through 2004 and possibly 2005. Miscavige's extremely vituperative church iron-hand management style has turned the atmosphere at the upper church administrative levels of the church to an all time low, in the opinions of recently defected members from the top ranks who I have talked with.

Miscavige, Scientology's top leader, is only following Hubbard's long ago lead at insisting on his right to these occassional extremist petty punishments, which in Hubbard lingo are called the "too gruesome" ethics gradients. The atmosphere at the top ranks at the no longer secret but still isolated and razor wire fenced Hemet headquarters in California is not healthy behind closed doors. Germany and the European countries who refrain from granting Scientology tax exempt religious status I feel are making the correct decision. The stories of the petty abuses by Miscavige in recent years are leaking out. In private Miscavige berated the top Hemet church officials for not doing their jobs as good as Tom has been for the church.
Chuck Beatty

ex lifetime staffer bureaucrat in the Scientology movement, 1975-2003

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It is about Tom Cruise, and him only. When Scientology no longer fills his coffers, it will go the way of the dodo in favor of his next scam. If you really think he is a true follower, boy could I sell you some stuff. The only thing bigger that his ego, is his over inflated sense of self importance.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

If you look at the record you will find that scientologist are just as passionate about human rights in Tibet as they are in Germany and Europe. And you will find that their social activities extend world over to help those in need. The recent earthquakes in Indonesia, the devastating floods in South Africa, helping children with study and literacy in Botswana. Scientologist world over have responded selflessly to give disaster relief and effective help in these areas. Tom Cruise is just another example of the motto that "A person is as valuable as he can be of service to others".

Cruise would do better spending time and money caring for Gods planet by helping the ecology the environment the poor and the oppressed

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

Scientologist have a long history of fighting for human rights and religious freedom through out the world. And I'm sure most Scientologist would stand up for human rights in Tibet and China as well as Europe and Germany.

As far as social activities look at the recent earthquakes in Indonesia, devastating floods in South Africa, literacy and study programs in Botswana and other areas. Scientologist have responded selflessly to these disasters and areas in need to render help to people. Tom Cruise's interest is another example of the motto "A person is as valuable as he can serve others".

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

Excellent story! Not many people know about what Scientology is really up to and I congratulate the German government for taking a stand against it despite Scientology's claims of persecution.

This story of Tom Cruise trying to use Armitage is pretty big news. People would do well to remember that Scientology launched something called "Operation Snow White" (info available online and documented from FBI records) in which Scientology infiltrated the IRS.

www.xenu.net is a good site for more information about the cult.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

I wonder if they all hopped in Tom's spaceship,and took a "cruise" around DC ??

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Hi Cetti,

Then can you please explain the scienotlogy tone scale to us ? And how the mentaly ill and those who speak out against scientology are placed on this tone scale ? This is what L Ron Hubbard had to say on it;

"There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the tone scale, neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the tone scale by un-enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes. The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow." L Ron Hubbard

" dispose of them quietly and without sorrow"?? about as

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

I fully endorse Mr. Cruise's desire to end religious discrimination in Germany against the Church of Scientology and other religions. How dare any government have the nerve to decide what one can or cannot believe in? This violates so many points of the Universal Declaration Human Rights which was created by the United Nations to provide a common understanding of what everyone’s rights are. It forms the basis for a world built on freedom, justice and peace.

Germany has a terrible and dark past and yet they could so easily set a standard for the rest of the world of equality for all no matter their religion.

Why should Tom Cruise to have to fight for something which should be everyone’s inalienable right.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

Sorry everyone, hit the send key to soon. But Robert how can you say scientology defends human rights when they have this tone scale? And what about the Religous Freedom Watch site they have ? It claims to defend all but only those who speak out against scientology are listed there.

Scientology can brag about human rights only when they are willing to give them to those who disagree with them. Untill then its just self serveing and leaves a funny taste in everyones mouth.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

A little behind scientology for those who arent aware how crazy this whole idea is.....

Scientology doctrine , xenu is the alien ruler of the galactic confederacy who 75 million years ago brought billions of people to earth in a dc 8 like spacecraft, stacked them around volcanoes and blew them up with hydrogen bombs. Their souls then clustered together and stuck to the bodies of the living, and continue to wreak chaos and havoc today. These events are known to scientologists as incident II.

The story of xenu is a much wider range of scientology beliefs in extraterrestrial civilizations and alien interventions in earthly events, collectively described as space opera by l. ron hubbard , science fiction writer and founder of scientology.

Criticism of the Church of Scientology often brings to light the story of xenu. The church has tried to keep xenu confidential; secret Advanced Technology doctrines taught only to members who have already contributed large amounts of money to the organization.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

scientology is controlling and debasing religion. In the minutes after 9/11 i was on my way downtown to help people buried in the rubble. on chambers street a group of scientologists asked me to join them. I did not know they were with a religious group or cult. within minutes as i was trying to help they were trying to convert. they kept insisting i enter this van of theirs. and to different survivors they would tell them how they should not seek counseling from a therapist but come to a scientologist center instead. it was gross. it reminded me of a schooltrip i took to the former soviet union - and i walked into the red square. their energy was as stark as that square and as ominous as the floating ashes around ground zero. i got away from their hold as quickly as possible and instead joined a rescuer with his rescue dog.

jerald alan when you stopped i thought you had been jettisonned of the tone scale wow i thought they got to you quick glad you have the courage to speak out all we need is people who are not afraid to speak

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I protest i am a nice quy and as sure as i am tom there is no tom foollery we sure came off space ships if i believe it any one can

I protest i am a nice quy and as sure as i am tom there is no tom foollery we sure came off space ships if i believe it any one can

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

I cannot believe all of you are getting into debates over Scientology because of Tom Cruise. HE IS A FAKE. The scientology gig is generating millions of dollars, and more importantly, pumping up his own sense of self worth. GET A CLUE. He could care less about the TRUE TENETS of scientology. Only the parts that keep his pathetic puss in the news matter. As I said before, when this gig quits generating what he needs to help him compensate for the fact that he is a dolt, there will be a new reason for him to be jumping on couches. Maybe we'll get lucky next time and he'll fall off.

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Thanks Gilly,

I don't mind Cruise using his hollywood power to promote what he belives in, but Human Rights is for all of us. Did you know one of the Human Rights scientology holds dear is the ummm Human Right to Copyright ?

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

Scientolgy ?

http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.com
http://whyaretheydead.net

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

Well, I have been a Scientologist for more than 20 years now and I have never seen any of the things I usually read on the press. Scientology is a good religion and does good things for people. But I keep reading things on the press that don't really exist. It's really sad to see how somebody is using the media to communicate a falsehood of data so as to make people think bad of Scientology. Since I noticed this years ago, I don't believe anymore what I see published. I only believe what I see with my own eyes. The media is the real brainwasher. Open your eyes!!

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

All religions sound foolish if you do not believe them. I find it humorous to hear about a so called war on Christianity during the holidays and the same people ridicule Scientology. Spaceships, virgin births, miracles...all require stretching the imagination.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

That Scientology is a religion in the fullest sense is attested to by the world's leading religious scholars and theologians. Read what they wrote at: ww.bonafidescientology.org/Append/07/index.htm

The underlying factor that causes Dianetics and Scientology to be opposed by vested interests, such as the psychiatric (www.cchr.org and www.FreedomMag.org) and the pharmaceutical industries is that -- aside from Scientology's relgious philosophy -- Hubbard's advancements in technology (www.able.org) are direct threats to the influence and immense revenues of vested interests.

Anyone of any religious faith can go online and learn many of these tools at www.ScientologyHandbook.org.

$1.6 Trillion a year (16 percent of every dollar spent in the US) goes into "healthcare." $40 billion (paid from our taxes) went just to Medicare (1995-2005) for psych "treatment" of senior citizens that included electric shock and lobotomies.

As regards those who attack religions -- that's an old story. Religious bigots have created fear and hatred and have caused death and destruction for centuries.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

Bogus. Germany does not "persecute" anyone of any religion. They have had this beat into them for so many years after Hitler they are afraid of their own shadow.

They believe Scientology is mind control - same as Hitler's youth etc.

Using our politicians to pressure other nations on matters of religion are ridiculous.

Cruise - go tend to your wife and kid. If you have one. Anyone else think Katie is now a kept woman?

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

Scientology also meets the requirements of a cult. But that aside most people inculding myself think you have every right to belive in whatever brings you pease.

But scientology's actions and behavior cause people like me to speak out. The people who speak out against scientology are not religous bigots as you like to put it. They are just people who think the behavior of scientology is wrong.

I would be very very interested in knowing just what the presentage of our old people who are reciving electric shock and lobotomies is.

Yes vested intrests are against scientology. My vested intrest in seeing my children don't have to bow down to a group who uses a tone scale to judge people. A group that flat out says if you are against it you have commited crimes. A group that has no problem calling people discusting names and trying to destory them if they speak out against scientology.

A group that wants to take the mentally ill and take away the only proven help there is for them. Dispose quietly and without sorrow is the quote I belive and that alone should scare people.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

Hi Joxe,

You don't belive what you see in the press anymore? Then why not go to xenutv.com and see for yourself? There are many videos there that will show you just what the critics are talking about.

I know you belive in scientology, but at the same time you have to open your mind to both sides here and see what is going on. If you don't then you just don't have the tools to make a real decision. And you are baseing your life on this.

Again its not scientology in itself. Its the underhanded behavior. I hope you look at the site and I wish you well.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

James,

The link you listed to prove scientology is a religion is a scientology website. Of couse they are going to say its a religion.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

Gray...how dare any goverment tell people what they can believe in!!!! What then gives our government the right to rule by what are their beliefs? Such as abortion, stem cell research, and the Terry Shiavo mess?

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

Everyone's ignoring the real news here because, admittedly, scientology is just so wacky. Richard Armitage outed Valerie Plame! Since he's already gone it's not like Bush can fire him as he said he would at the beginning of this mess.

And all the wacko conspiracy theories that Bush and Cheney were responsible for leaking her name look like they've gone down the toilet now, too. And since Plame was out of the CIA for nearly 6 years when the "outing" occurred there was probably no crime in the first place. Seems like all the stones have finally been uncovered. Good job by Fitzgerald of getting to the bottom of this mess.

I've just got to comment on some of the comments defending scientology in this thread, too. "Hubbard's advancements in technology?" He was a science fiction writer! Please tell me what he invented other than this scam to fleece the weak-minded. "Un-enturbulating some of their theta?" This is reasonable to you people?

"Tone scale?" Tell me this is some kind of a joke, please. One time after I saw the first "South Park" scientology episode me and a female companion went drinking on Lincoln Avenue one night and we happened to stumble across the "Scientology Celebrity Center" around Lincoln and Paulina. Just for kicks we decided to go inside and see if they would test our "thetans" to see if one of us was the reincarnation of L. Ron Hubbard like Stan was in that episode of "South Park."

Anyway, they were mad at us for coming in slightly inebriated in the first place but they wanted to convert us nonetheless. They told us it would cost $120 to get our thetan levels tested. Which we openly laughed at. They then kept telling us how they "could see our souls" and we should really come back and they kept wanting us to give our phone numbers, e-mails and addresses (really insistently). We said, no, we don't want to pay anything we were just curious about the thetans and tried to leave. Then they started to insult us. So we left even though they tried to block our exit.

So, here's my question. If there really is some ultra-high-thetan person out there, who could be anybody, then why can only people who fork over $120 take the test? Wouldn't this "religion" use all its resources to find this messiah? Or could it be that it's just a money-making scam ?

Seems to me that Germany has the right idea.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

Ok, one last time. Tom Cruise is to scientology what the Simpson sisters are to music. FAKE!!!!!

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

Sorry, forgot one more thing. Read some in depth bio's of Tom and you will find that as a kid he was diagnosed with Attention Deficit Disorder (A.D.D.). The knowledge of this in and of itself could hurt his career in todays shallow society. But, subscribe to the Scientology parade and poof, no need to worry about a DIAGNOSIS. Tom Cruise is a FAKE. If you truely think that he subscribes to scientology, well, your wrong. YES, ONE MORE TIME. TOMMY BOY HAD A.D.D. Scientology is a dodge for him. He is a loser!!!!!!!!!!!!

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

Jaycee, you are uninformed. I don't know about today, but in the 80's Germany was like Russia, using psychiatric detention to "deprogram" scientologists. The government illegally detained and subjected to involuntary psychiatric "treatment" at least 2 people. Just like how now China is doing the same thing to Falun Gong members. It is a human rights violation !!!

The governments have no right to determine what people can choose as their religion. It's just like the Roman days when the Romans persecuted Christians who didn't obey the Roman version of Christianity: Catholicism. Remember John Hess!!!! The governments violating people's human rights while suffer a permanent notorious history.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

Jaycee, you are uninformed. I don't know about today, but in the 80's Germany was like Russia, using psychiatric detention to "deprogram" scientologists. The government illegally detained and subjected to involuntary psychiatric "treatment" at least 2 people. Just like how now China is doing the same thing to Falun Gong members. It is a human rights violation !!! The governments have no right to determine what people can choose as their religion. It's just like the Roman days when the Romans persecuted Christians who didn't obey the Roman version of Christianity: Catholicism. Remember John Hess!!!! The governments violating people's human rights while suffer a permanent notorious history.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

Hi HR,

When you have to reach all the way back to the 80's for an exsample then you have pretty much lost whatever point you were trying to make.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

The German government is not "banning" Scientology, they are simply refusing to recognize it as an officially sanctioned religion, and rightfully so. Scientology only operates as a religion -- note the bogus crucifix on their logo -- because of the tax benefits, not to mention the ease of dismissing legitimate criticism as religious bigotry. The cult's founder, L. Ron Hubbard, was nothing if not manipulative and cynical: he realized that "religion" could be a profitable business. The U.S. was pressured to give the cult a tax-free status as a result of a well-calculated barrage of lawsuits.

Rob S., your comments show you don't really know whats going on. LOL.

Jerald, I see you still believe everything you read on the internet. LOL!!

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

Jerald, The 80's is historical information of the German government's discrimination. And the discrimination continues to this day and you can get confirmation of this from U.S. State Department reports. Are you sure you know what you're talking about, it seems to me you've been led to believe everything you read on the internet. If that's what you base your knowledge on, then too bad for you.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

William, you don't believe in freedom of religion obviously, and you also obviously believe everything you read on the internet. LOL

I dare you to research things from scratch instead of just believing a couple of personal websites. If you haven't done that, then you're just quite simply stupid.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

It looks like the reason Sumner Redstone dumped Tom Cruise was three-fold.

One - because he is becoming a liability with his increasingly huge paychecks, kickbacks and expenses and inability to butts in seats.

Two - his absolutely over the top insane behavior over the past 20 months.

Three - looks like Tiny Tom was using Viacoms dime & time to fly around the world and instead of hawking his Paramount movies , he was shilling for $cientology.

As a shareholder of Viacom , I don't f*%cking appreciate the dwarf using my money for the purposes of defending the Cult of $cientology, which I do not subscribe to .

I'm glad Sumner Redstone had the balls to dump this egotistical napoleanic little man.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

HR

First, do we know each other? Nope I don't belive everything. But I am able to find the truth when its out there. What are you refering to ? LOL

I have said many times its not scientlogy, its the behavior of those who run it. Have you seen xenu.net or xenutv.com.

And everyone kinda skipped over the tone level questions didn't they ?

"There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the tone scale, neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the tone scale by un-enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes. The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow." L Ron Hubbard

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

HR,

Yes I know the history of it. But to bring up something from 25 years ago is silly. Just as if I had used Hubbards conviction and the fact that he skipped jail would be silly. Just as the top people in scientololy going to jail for bugging and breaking into goverment offices would be silly.

I don't hold what happend 25 years ago against scientology. Its how they behave now.

Everyone will read the posts and see who is snowing people here. And I hope they will check scientology out for themselfs. They can at scientology.com, xenu.net and xenutv.com

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

Telling William he doesn't belive in freedom of reglion simply because he disagrees with you and telling someone they are stupid shows all people need to see here HR.

But I tell you what. I did look what i know up from scratch. Have you done the same? Have you not only looked at scientology but also what those who speak out against it are about ?

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

Sophia, I think you're only correct on #1. The 2nd reason also doesn't make sense, celeberities always do wild and crazy things. And #3 of your reasoning would indicate discrimination, so I doubt Redstone would base his decisions on discrimination. Sounds like you also believe everything you read on the internet. Too bad for you LOL

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Stop posting under different identities with your silly criticism, it only confirms that critics do such to make their bigotry seem to come from more than one source. But really it only comes from a limited source: BIGOT

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Sophia, its not your money once Viacom spends it, the money belongs to the person who received. Shows how much you know about economics. I hope your stocks crash and you end up living on the streets of L.A. Then you can eat other peoples lunches out of trashcans on 5th and Grand and scream that they're YOUR lunches.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

James Lightfield is correct

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

Again with the name calling HR. Not everyone who disagrees with you is a bigot. And you do yourself and what you believe in a disservice when you attact this way.

Do you have so little faith in what you belive in that you have to resort to names and attacks ?

And I have seen no attemps of someone trying to use different ID's here. I think you are the one trying to distract here HR. Why not just talk it out. I did notice you didn't reply to my asking you if you have been to sites not approved by scientology. Like xenu.net and xenutv.com. And lets not leave out scientology.com. You can't really know what its all about unless you know both sides here.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

Wow HR,

I have been rereading the posts here and you have had not one good thing to say about anyone who is speaking out against scientolgoy. And I can't belive the attact you did on Sophia.

We are surpost to be adults here and should respect each other even when we don't agree. Are you OK ?

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

HR,

Who answers the phone at the 800 number registered to the Cult Awareness Network ? Are you clear ?

PS: Say hi to John Travolta for me.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

BillR.

The abortion, stem-cell issues,and Terri Shiavo (righ-to-die) cases are legitmate social issues that need debated. Religious people are entitled to the viewpoints just as non-religious people are. This country allows for Reverend Jackson, Sharpton, and Meeks to their viewpoints just as they allow Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and Dr. Dobson. Religion is part of culture and should be embraced. The constitution gives us the freedom of religion not freedom from religion.

Bill, come thsi election season, see how many times you will see on the local Sunday night news democratic politicians campaiging from the pulpit of a south-side black church.

As far as abortion, I'll argue the pro-life viewpoint and never bring the anything about religion into the arguement.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

Gee, would some of you Scientologists like to say a few words about some of your fellow Scientoloigsts and what Scientology did for them?How about Lisa McPherson? Greg Bashaw?Jeremy Perkins and his mom ?

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

Tom Cruise gets personal meetings with executives of the federal government because 2 performers were denied the right to perform in other countries thatwere smart enough to deem The Church of Scientology to be a cult.

Meanwhile REAL religious persecution occurs every day, all around the world.

What is wrong with this picture ? It's pathetic

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

Terry....There is a section that actually does give us freedom "from" religion and that is the first admendment. Separation of church and state.

As it stands now there are three prongs to the litmus test that is used by the justices to determine this issue. One being...does this law advance or hinder religious beliefs. Mr Bush's reason for veto was an ethical one. Now was this ethical reasoning due to a religious belief. If Mr. Bush (as president of the U.S.) decided to ban pork say..for his religious belief..that would overstep the seperation of church and state. It's a slippery slope but I think you can understand where I'm coming from.

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Terry...also this fall I'm sure you will see rebulican candidates on steps of churches.

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Does a mention of Lisa McPherson, Greg Bashaw and/or Jeremy Perkins automatically activate their Scinetology net nannie blockers ?

Anyone who refuses to stay tuned to what's really going on in the world or in his/her "group" via media reports by legitimate journalists and only believes what his/her leader or group tells hium/her is to be pitied for being afraid to confront the truth and/or being brainwashed. Reminds me of Nazis and Bushites.

So what's with you Hubbardites.....why don't you answer the questions ?

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

My, my where did all the Scientologists go ? Does a mention of Lisa McPherson, Greg Bashaw and/or Jeremy Perkins automatically activate their Scinetology net nannie blockers?Anyone who refuses to stay tuned to what's really going on in the world or in his/her "group" via media reports by legitimate journalists and only believes what his/her leader or group tells hium/her is to be pitied for being afraid to confront the truth and/or being brainwashed. Reminds me of Nazis and Bushites. So what's with you Hubbardites.....why don't you answer the questions ?

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

A lot of Scientologists are told to post on these kinds of boards, but they are not alowed to read posts that are critial of scientology. I know that sounds silly as can be, but its the truth.

James and Steve are aloud to do both and for the most part have always treated me with the respect I show them.

But still they never really answer any question put to them. They toss a link up or quote something. I would really love to know what they think.

And I would love for them to visit sites like xenu.net and xenutv.com to see for themselfs. But to this date they have refused to do so telling me they don't need to see both sides as they know what they know.
Its really sad when you think about it.

Source : http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/religion_and_politics/index.html

10,000 lies by the MSM liars just got ... superceded ... by the fact that it was Richard Armitage who was the one who supposedly "outed" little lying Joey's wife. ;-)

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